The Benefits Of A Trusteed IRA Over A Traditional IRA (Episode # 300)

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Welcome afternoon, Michigan Anders. It
is Tuesday, March twelve, twenty twenty

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four, and of course this is
Tuesday with Tom, Michigan's only weekly Internet

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show where we do answer your questions
about a state planning and estate settlement in

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Michigan, and we don't send you
a bill. As always, I'm your

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host, Tom Doyle, a state
planning attorney, lifelong Michigan resident, and

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ambassador for all things good in this
great state of Michigan. Welcome, Welcome,

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Welcome to today's program. Well,
just a brief recamp of last week's

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episode. I talked about six reverse
mortgage myths. So if you're thinking about

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having reverse mortgage, you want more
information about it, or you're concerned about

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some of the things that you've heard
about them, I encourage you to listen

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to last week's program where I talk
about the common myths that there are out

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there about reverse mortgages. Today,
going to continue a theme that I started

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a couple weeks ago. We're going
to talk a little bit about the benefits

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of a trusteed I Ray over a
traditional I ray. But please remember what

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I'm about to discuss is as always
for educational purposes only in It is not

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intended to be legal advice, or
tax advice or financial advice for you.

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You need to work with your attorney
to determine what is appropriate for you,

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and of course your tax advisor,
your financial advisor, all of them is

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part of your team to help determine
what is appropriate for you and your estate

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plan. The benefits of a trustee
I RAY over a traditional I are a

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well, most of you are no
doubt familiar and likely have what's considered a

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traditional I RA. Perhaps you have
it with a financial organization, maybe something

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like a Merrill Lynch or a Schwab, or maybe you have it at your

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bank or your credit union, where
you understand you have put money aside.

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A traditional IRA, that money is
put aside pre tax and then when you

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begin drawing the funds out of your
IRA, you're going to pay the tax

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as income tax at that time or, as you probably also understand, if

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you die, you can name a
beneficiary or multiple beneficiaris if you want,

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who will then receive the IRA.
They will take the money out of the

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IRA, and they will then pay
the taxes on whatever was in the IRA.

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That is what is considered in its
simplest terms a trust a traditional IRA.

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Now, one of the questions that
frequently is presented to us though when

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we're putting together in the state plan
is I have a traditional IRA, but

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I don't want upon my death the
proceeds simply to go outright to a beneficiary.

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I want it to be managed for
them in some sort of a trust

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arrangement. I mean, part of
the reason we're oftentimes creating a trust for

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clients is to provide management of an
estate after they die. Maybe they have

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minor children, maybe they have adult
children, but they don't want them to

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get their hands on the money all
at once, whatever the circumstances be.

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Where we are looking at using a
trust as a tool to manage an estate

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after you die, well, one
possibility that is sometimes explored as well,

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what if I simply take my traditional
IRA and I make my living trust the

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beneficiary on that IRA. That is
something that we used to do regularly with

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clients. We would have visions in
the trust itself, and when the proceeds

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came into the trust, those provisions
provided for the trust to be what we

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would call a see through or a
look through trust, so that the benefits

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from the IRA would get taxed at
the beneficiaries level rather than at the trust.

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The problem a number of changes that
have occurred. The secure acts come

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around a number of rules and regulations
that come out by the IRS, And

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as a result of all of that, we have determined that we no longer

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recommend to our clients that they simply
make their living trust the beneficiary on the

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IRA. We've run into situations where
a custodian of the IRA doesn't want to

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recognize the terms of the trust.
Maybe the custodium of the IRA wants to

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have their own terms and a trust
whatever happens to be. And it's become

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problematic because also the IRS periodically makes
change to their rules and regulations and their

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interpretations concerning iras and when a trust
is a beneficiary, and it's just more

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difficult to even manage the whole updating
process that is oftentimes required. So what's

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an alternative. An alternative that many
clients are beginning to look at today is

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what is called a trusteed ira.
What is it? A trusteed ira is

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very much like your traditional IRA.
However, the real difference is is that

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there is now a trust if you
think about it, inside the IRA,

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at least that's the way to think
about it. So let's say that you

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have your IRA at Merrilynch. Just
use Merri Lynch as an example. If

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you have a TRUSTEEDRA with Merrill Lynch, it is a separate trust, separate

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from your living trust that we've created
for you, and its sole purpose is

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to manage and control the IRA that
is associated with that trust. So it's

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exactly the same as a regular IRA, with the exception that the account assets

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are being held in a trust rather
than what we generally think of as a

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custodial account. However, under the
tax code, because both types of iras

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are considered identical, they are still
treated as the same under the tax code

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regarding irase. The IRA provider in
this case, what we will refer to

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as the financial institution is the one
who's going to administer the IRA, also

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serves as the trustee of the trusteed
IRA, rather than simply as a custodian

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your traditional iray. They're holding onto
your funds, perhaps investing them, but

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that's really all that they are doing, whereas under a trusteede diarray they now

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have additional responsibilities as a trustee to
manage the investments and to distribute the proceeds

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of the IRA as you direct in
the terms of the trusteed IRA. It

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should be clearful what I'm saying.
A trusteede IRA is something that you will

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have to look for to find out
does the company, perhaps the financial organization

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that you're already working with, have
or offer trusteed iras. What I will

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do is after this broadcast airs,
we have the ability to post a blog

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on Tuesday with Tom. I'm going
to post a blog on Tuesday with Tom

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which will be a list of what
I have come up with so far as

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current financial organizations that are offering trusteed
ira. So you can look at that

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list see if it's somebody that you're
already working with, then you can reach

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out to them and have a discussion
with them about the possibility of a trusteed

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IRA. If it's not somebody that
you're already working with, then you can

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reach out to one of these other
organizations or check with whoever is the custody

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and you're currently working with, and
maybe they have other resources available. But

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what's the advantage, So think about
this. Okay, Let's say, for

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example, that you have minor children
you're looking in saying, hey, upon

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my death I don't want my minor
children to receive the inheritance now that includes

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the IRA. I don't want to
receive the IRA now, I want it

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to be managed, if you will
after my death for them by using a

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trustee IRA. Essentially you're creating a
trust again with the financial institution, and

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the terms of that trust can control
who will inherit the IRA, just like

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you do now with your traditional IRA, and it will control how quickly they

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can withdraw the funds. Now that's
important because it's the trust terms of the

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IRA that's going to control how quickly
the beneficiary can withdraw the funds. It's

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not the beneficiary who's going to be
making that choice upon your death. It

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will be already defined in the term
terms of the trust that you've created.

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So under those circumstances, you can
provide, if you will, that you

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want the proceeds not to simply be
distributed outright too in this case the children,

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you want it to be distributed over
time, and under the current IRIS

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rules, you'll be looking at the
option of how long can you actually stretch

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out that distribution it used to be
over your child's life expectancy. That's not

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available in most cases. Now it's
normally going to be a ten year period

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of time. When you're talking about
minor children, it's going to be ten

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years from when they become adults.
But tax advantages to distributing that over period

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of time, the trusteed I R
RAY is going to be able to be

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used to preserve those potential tax advantage. Another example, though, maybe you

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have a blended family and you might
be looking in saying, hey, I

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want to take care of my spouse
after my death, but once my spouse

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dies, I want my estate to
go to my children. Very common planning

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with second marriages where someone is saying
I want to take care of my spouse,

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but I don't want my estate to
go to my spouse's children. I

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wanted to go to my children.
With the traditional IRA, you normally would

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be looking at making the spouse the
beneficiary of the IRA so that the spouse

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can roll it over into his or
her own IRA. But now what it

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now belongs to the spouse, and
the spouse can then determine who they want

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to be a beneficiary. Well a
trustee IRA, you can create a structure

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that will provide benefits to your spouse
while your spouse is alive and still be

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sure that the remaining amount in the
IRA at the day of your spouse will

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in fact go to your children.
Another advantage if you listen to my February

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seventeenth episode, which was what happens
if my minor child receives my IRA,

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well, if you have a minor
child who's going to receive your IRA,

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what's going to be needed is somebody
is going to have to go to the

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probate court have themselves appointed a conservator
that's going to be the person legally who

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can receive the funds on behalf of
a minor child until they get to be

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eighteen. If you use a trustee
IRA, however, it will not be

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necessary to have that conservator appointed.
So there certainly will be some financial savings

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to the family of the miner,
who otherwise would have to be paying a

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lawyer, no doubt, to have
the conservatoire established for them. Another advantage

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is there can be spendthrift protection from
creditors because the proceeds are still being controlled

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by the trust they haven't been distributed
out right in this case to your children.

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Your children's creditors are limited to what
they can do and trying to actually

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get those proceeds from the trust if
there's a debt that your child has during

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your lifetime. Though, there are
benefits in that you still have professional management.

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If you become in capacity to think
about traditional IRA, you own it,

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you manage it. You become incapacitated, Now you need somebody to manage

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it for you. Now, hopefully
you have an appropriate power of attorney in

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place that will do that for you. But if you don't, one advantage

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of having the trustee IRA is that
that trustee will now begin managing that IRA

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for you during your lifetime, So
there is a management aspect to it even

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during your lifetime in the event of
in capacity. Another potential advantage I guess

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is that it preserves the continuity of
the IRA management during your lifetime and after

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your death. Right now, your
traditional IRA, maybe it's going to get

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distributed out. Maybe that new person
that's going to get distributed out to decides

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to take up to a different financial
services company to manage it for them.

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Well, one of the advantages,
if you think about it, of a

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trustee DIRA is again let's say that
you have that at I'll pick somebody else.

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Let's say Charles Schwab. You've got
Charles Schwab who's investing it during your

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lifetime, you're happy with what Charles
Schwab is doing for you. After your

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death, those proceeds can continue to
be managed by Charles Schwab, So there's

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a continuity, if you will,
in the management after your death. Important

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and this is one of the reasons
that we have decided to no longer recommend

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to clients that they make their revocable
living trust the beneficiary. Again, the

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IRS is always looking at regulations,
interpreting the law and coming up with new

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regulations and coming up with new interpretations, and as a result of that,

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oftentimes it requires a trust that is
going to receive proceeds from an IRA to

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be updated. Well, if it's
a trustee IRA, that will be something

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that the financial company that's the trustee
in managing your IRA is normally going to

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do. They will make sure that
the trust is always up to date.

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They will make sure that it's complying
with whatever the new rules and regulations are

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that the IRS has, whereas that
is not as readily done in the world

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of revocable living trust when they are
prepared by an attorney and another consideration is

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that in many cases it is less
expensive to have the trusteed IRA because the

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alternative that many clients are now looking
at not making their revocable trust the beneficiary,

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but they're looking at having a totally
separate, standalone IRARA trust created.

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So there's a cost associated with that, having a separate, standalone IRA trust

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created, and there are good reasons
to do even that rather than putting them

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into the traditional revocable trust that's being
created for you. So even in our

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situation, if a client says,
hey, I would like to have my

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IRA proceeds paid into a trust that
is more controlled and designed by me,

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that can be done. But we
will be recommending that that is done by

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a separate trust from the normal revocable
living trust. So I've got two trusts

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going on, and there's reasons I
don't need to go in to today as

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to why we would recommend that.
But so there's a cost associated with that,

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and then there's going to be a
cost associated with maintaining that separate IRA

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trust. Well, you might well
find that the financial institution that you're working

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with, whatever fees they have associated
with the trusteed IRA are oftentimes less than

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creating and managing the separate ira trusts. Now, for some people that might

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be considered a disadvantage. There will
be fees, no doubt charged by the

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financial company in order to create and
set up and manage the trusteed ira.

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So you need to obviously look to
whatever those fees are going to be,

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compare those fees to what it costs
otherwise to have your traditional ira. Another

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disadvantage is with a traditional ira,
you might be familiar with this. Let's

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say that I have a traditional ira
and maybe let's pick somebody else. Let's

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say that I've got one with E
Trade, and I've got my Ira at

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E Trade and one day decide,
you know what, I don't want my

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Ira to be at E trade anymore. Maybe I'm now going to transfer it

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over to let's say, to the
America Trade. I've going to transfer it

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over to a new ira. Well, you can normally arrange what's called a

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trustee to trustee transfer that goes directly
in that case from one custodian to the

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other custodian. It's not considered a
distribution, so you don't have to pay

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taxes as part of that transfer.
Unfortunately, many trustee di arrays and again,

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this is something that you need to
discuss with the company that you're discussed

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talking to. Many trustee irays don't
allow assets to be transferred to another financial

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organization, so you need to know
that, and if that's the case,

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you need to understand that when you're
setting up that trustee IRA. And for

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a number of clients too, the
problem sometimes with going with a trustee diarrase.

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Let's say you're working with a financial
advisor already that you really have a

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good relationship with and you're happy with
the services that you're providing, but perhaps

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their company doesn't offer trusted iras.
You might find that when you go shopping

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for trustee iras, many of the
financial companies that are offering the trusteed dirays

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might not permit you to name your
current investment advisor to continue to be in

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charge of investment advice for the trustee
iras. You will in fact have to

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now use an investment advisor from the
other companies. So what if you're happy

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with the investment advisor that you already
have and you're going to look for a

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trusteed IRA, than what you need
to look for is a trusteed IRA where

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you can control the investment advisor,
and what normally that is going to be,

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It's going to be more of what
you might consider an independent type trustee.

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And that's probably more what you're going
to be looking for, is an

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independent trustee. It might be,
for example, the private trust company.

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That's one of the companies that I'm
somewhat familiar with. The private trust Company,

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at least in their literature in indicates
that you can continue to utilize your

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same investment advisor. They will create
the trusteed i r RAY. They will

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be the trustee of the I RAY. They'll have obviously their free use for

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doing it, but they will continue
to permit you to allow your current investment

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advisor to remain as the investment advisor
to the trust. Now that's just one

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example of the private trust company that
I've come across. I believe there are

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others out there, and if you
go through the list of trusteed iras that

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I will post on our blog,
you can probably pick out some of those

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that you might want to consider checking
into if that is a concern for you.

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But the bottom line is, if
you are considering having your trust be

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the recipient of IRA proceeds, you
really should take a look at the trusteed

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irase. It's really, if you
think about it, it's the marriage of

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a trust and an IRA. It's
a single tool that's the trusteed IRA that

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takes advantage of both the trust and
the IRA worlds. If you will,

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It blends the custodial IRA account into
a trust and takes advantages of the tax

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advantages that are available through the IRA. That essentially is what a trusteed IRA

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is. And again, when you
have your iras and you're looking at putting

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your plan together, if you're consulting
with amand and I, we're going to

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have a discussion with you about options
that you might consider relative to how you're

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going to be handling your IRA proceeds. And one of those is certainly going

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to be recommending that you be in
contact with your financial company that you're working

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with or the financial advisor that you're
working with and see what might be available

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for you. Now, for more
information on iras in general, simply head

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on over to the website Tuesday with
Time dot Com. There you'll find a

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search bar. And I've had a
number of episodes on different aspects of irays.

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I've talked about self directed iras,
what a checkbook IRA, is maybe

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you want to have consider having multiple
irays using your IRA to buy a house

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and last week's or a week ago, I guess it wasn't last week's but

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two weeks ago. I think it
was now two episodes ago is when I

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talked about what happens if your IRA
is going to be inherited by your children.

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A reminder, of course, then
amand and I would be honored to

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00:25:22.880 --> 00:25:29.119
have the opportunity to help you protect
your loved ones by putting together your state

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00:25:29.200 --> 00:25:33.759
plan, a, mending a current
plan, or assisting you in settling an

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00:25:33.880 --> 00:25:40.759
estate. Simply head on over to
the office website that's Doyle LAWPC dot com.

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00:25:40.799 --> 00:25:44.839
There you're going to find information on
how you can schedule a consultation with

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00:25:44.920 --> 00:25:49.839
it, be it virtual through zoom
or telephone, or in person at the

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00:25:49.839 --> 00:25:55.960
East Lansing office. Reminder too,
there is the legal Store available on our

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00:25:56.000 --> 00:26:00.559
website that is there in case you're
just looking for a particular individual document.

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00:26:02.160 --> 00:26:07.079
Maybe all you need is a new
durable power of attorney. Head on over

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00:26:07.119 --> 00:26:10.000
to the Legal Store, take a
look and you might be able to order

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00:26:10.079 --> 00:26:15.640
that online where we can prepare it
and email it to you to be printed

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00:26:15.240 --> 00:26:19.279
at your end. Again, that
is all available and much more at the

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00:26:19.319 --> 00:26:37.759
website Doyle LOWPC dot com. Well, I think that's probably going to be

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enough for today's program. As always, though, if you have a comment

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about the program, you have a
topic that you'd like to have me discuss,

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00:26:48.160 --> 00:26:53.359
or questions that you would like to
have answered, please send me an

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00:26:53.400 --> 00:26:57.599
email is one option. That's Tom
at Tuesday with Tom dot com. And

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00:26:57.680 --> 00:27:03.880
if you've been listening lately, you
know that the new website has a microphone

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00:27:03.480 --> 00:27:08.799
on it. Simply click on that
microphone and you can leave a voice message

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00:27:08.839 --> 00:27:12.880
for me, perhaps a comment about
the program, topic you'd like to have

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00:27:14.000 --> 00:27:18.119
me discuss, etc. Also,
please follow us on Facebook, invite your

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family and friends to follow us.
That is at Tuesday with Tom and the

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00:27:22.240 --> 00:27:27.880
office is at Doyle Law PC.
Remember two. The program is available on

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00:27:27.960 --> 00:27:36.000
Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, Google Podcast, iHeartRadio, Spreaker,

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00:27:36.160 --> 00:27:41.039
probably wherever it is that you normally
listen to your podcast, you will be

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00:27:41.079 --> 00:27:45.200
able to listen to Tuesday with Tom. And if you can't, again shoot

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00:27:45.200 --> 00:27:48.759
me an email or leave me a
comment on the website telling me what service

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00:27:48.799 --> 00:27:53.880
do you use to listen to podcasts
and we'll see if we are able to

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00:27:55.000 --> 00:28:00.880
arrange to have the program distributed on
that channel as well. You can also

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00:28:00.160 --> 00:28:07.359
ask your smart speaker to play Tuesday
with Tom in one reminder too. This

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00:28:07.599 --> 00:28:14.960
coming I believe it's on Sunday will
be Saint Patrick's Day, So happy Saint

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00:28:15.039 --> 00:28:18.680
Patrick's Day to all of you out
there. Thanks again though for spending some

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00:28:18.799 --> 00:28:22.279
of your time with us, and
as always, I hope that you have

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00:28:22.319 --> 00:28:33.039
an awesome day and an awesome week
in Michigan. Stay safe. Tuesday with

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00:28:33.119 --> 00:28:37.920
Tom has been brought to you by
the estate planning attorneys at Doyle Law PC.

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00:28:38.240 --> 00:28:41.680
To learn how we can help you
with your estate plan or with settling

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00:28:41.680 --> 00:28:47.200
a loved one's estate, please call
us today at five one seven three two

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00:28:47.279 --> 00:28:51.960
three seven three sixty six. That's
five one seven three two three seven three

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00:28:52.119 --> 00:28:52.680
sixty six.